Interview with Grant, soldier with the International Legion for the Defence of Ukraine

Lightly edited for clarity and to preserve operational security (OPSEC).

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Hello, this is Matthew Parish with the Lviv Herald, and I'm here today with Grant, who is a member of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and he's from the United States of America. And Grant has kindly agreed to be interviewed by the Lviv Herald to tell us about his experiences and his stories as a soldier working for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

So Grant, let's start. Before we talk about your experiences in the military, what can you tell me about your life back in the United States? Tell the readers how old you are and which part of the state you're from, whatever you'd like to say, your background.

Well, I'm just a 23-year-old guy from Colorado. I'm not going to say it, where specifically, but back at home, I didn't really do too much with my time.

I just basically worked at a common chain restaurant for more than minimum wage. Had a passion for Ukraine when the war broke out in 2022. And then in 2024, I finally decided to bite the bullet, buy a plane ticket, and just fly out.

Why were you interested in Ukraine when the war started? You say you had a passion for it. Where did it come from?

Well, a lot of people in, how do I say this? Well, when the war broke out, it made headlines. A lot of people where I come from Eastern Europe, some childhood friends were Russian, Ukrainian, Polish. So in a way, Eastern Europe was a part of my high school experience.

And that introduced me to the culture.

A lot of people I've spoken to don't know why they came here, they just felt that they had to.

It's hard for me to say why I decided to, like, finally come here and actually do it. Actually, you know, actually partake in it. Because being here is so nuanced and different.

Coming to Ukraine, one of my strongest inspirations for joining this conflict was the stories of foreigners who had fought against ISIS and Daesh in the Middle East. I asked myself: if I had the chance to join that struggle and fight against evil, would I do it? The answer was yes. So what was stopping me from fighting the evil that was unfolding here?

I am not a fighter. I would like to be, but that is not who I am. I began to wonder how I could contribute to this conflict in a way that would make me most effective. For me, that answer was medical work—specifically medical evacuation.

Watching the documentary The Volunteers (produced by Ricky Schroder) was what finally made me commit to this path. Seeing Westerners enter a conflict zone not to destroy but to save lives truly moved me and inspired me. That is what I sought to do in Ukraine. And if I could not serve in a medical role, then I would turn to something else. Mortars fascinated me, and I thought of them as another way I could contribute.

Being in Ukraine also taught me something about the legacy of the Soviet Union. Much of it was built on ethnic removal and the replacement of everything non-Russian. When I visited Lithuania, I saw the same historical pattern reflected in Russia’s agenda. Sadly, much of Europe still allows Russia to act without restraint. Unless there is more direct action and intervention, this conflict may spill over into the rest of Europe.

Ukraine needs anti-drone support more urgently than ever. Hopefully, after the recent violation of Polish airspace, we will start to see more encouraging news on that front.

What I do remember my big passion for coming over here is I wanted to add to the conflict in a positive way. I didn't come over here to kill people. That was, like, a big thing. I'm not, like, a violent guy. I'm not much of a fighter. I'm too skinny and metrosexual for a fistfight. And, you know, that's perfectly fine. But my motivation coming here was to work in medical and work in CASEVAC.

Just explain what that means for those who don't know

Casualty evacuation, that was the motivation. Like I thought that were just more badass than dragging out someone who couldn't get themselves out, working on them, stabilizing and putting them in a car and say, work in the hospital.

Now, let me ask you, did you have any medical background or training or military background or training?

No.

Did you know how to fire a gun?

Oh, absolutely.

I mean every American that's but I was into like guns back home, but as I got older, I really just started straying away from firearms and stuff like that used to be like a hyper, I would say a hyper fixation, but I got older and it stopped being as interesting as it once was. But absolutely I just use some guns I've made I put together my own AR-15 back home. Which is what it which isn't much of a flex. It's like putting together a Lego set

Just explain to the readers what is an AR-15.

It's the one gun that every mass shooter uses.

It's an assault rifle.

I mean, the AR stands for armor lite, but I guess you could qualify as an assault rifle. I don't know.

I'm so like, out of touch with the lingo, right? So I'm not sure what qualifies as anything anymore, but for firearms and whatnot.

I didn't have any medical experience coming to Ukraine and the goal was to get medical training here. I was originally going to join the 16th [Brigade]. That was a conscript battalion where I knew foreigners in and one of them was an American fro Florida. And he worked and he was a paramedic firefighter. So I was going to train underneath them.

But before we go there, I'm interested in really how you ended up in Ukraine. You just bought a ticket to Ukraine or to Poland and crossed the border and said I want to join the army.

Well first I applied through the website. A lot of sources at the time said the worst thing you can do was just show up. So I decided I don't want to strain, you know, I didn't know what to expect. So I didn't want to look at a situation where I would be stranded in a strained Eastern European country. That was the fear.

So I just went to the Legion website and I applied three times, waiting for a response from a recruiter and finally one got back to me from first and second Battalions, and they asked me if I wanted to join and I said hell yeah and he said when do you want to join and I said oh I just I'll fly a ticket for February and I'll fly in then.

Had you ever been to Europe before?

No, first time.

Had you ever left the United States before?

Never in my life.

So you bought a ticket to your first trip abroad buying a ticket to Poland and then crossing the border on foot to Ukraine in the war zone in 2024. So what happened then?

What were the steps of what the next few weeks of your life were like?

Well, after walking across the border, I was put into - a there's a shack right on the Polish-Ukrainian border with like the Legion logo on it. I just said, hey, I want to join the Legion.

The border guard very rudely told me to go sit in there. And I sat in there for about 30 minutes next to a Ukrainian flag with signatures to people who came before me. And as I was reading the names, the Ukrainian finally figured out that I was in there waiting for him, goes in, shakes my hands, like, oh, thank you so much for coming yet because, you know, I didn't do anything yet. And then I was moved from safe house to safe house, doing paperwork, signing, whatever the hell.

And then I was put into a training camp. I call it purgatory because it was when you weren't on contract, but you're still living on a military base.

Don't say where it is.

Oh, I'm definitely not.

OK, there was somewhere. All we need to know is it was somewhere dirty and not refined.

So that's where I was for a few weeks. And in there, I got to know a lot of other foreigners joining the same Battalion. And that's where I met Spicy, the medical guy.

The guy you were talking about before.

Yeah, and he talked to me because, you know, I'm not going to lie, when I first crossed the border and I finally sat down surrounded by all these legionaries in the military, I cried.

And why was that?

Because it was just like, holy shit, I finally did this. It was very, like, not to sound like a pussy, but I'm a very sensitive and emotional man.

And when I just ended that moment, it really hit what I was doing. Because it's easy to go from safe house to safe house and not really think about it. But when you're actually there, and you're right about to start basic training, it's like, holy shit, I'm about to do this.

You've come all this way and now it's about to start. What can you tell me about your basic training? You say you had several weeks of that.

I'd say I had about a month and a half. It wasn't bad basic training, but it was very rushed. A lot of the instructors had served in the Legion, or they fought in Ukraine before the full-scale invasion, or they fought during the full-scale invasion in the early days before there were drones, and they just wanted to instruct. It wasn't bad, but a lot of it was very rushed, and there's no consistent doctrine.

So you have four instructors, like one would be from Poland, one would be American, the other one South African, and maybe a Mexican. And they all have different backgrounds. So you'd have a Polish ranger arguing with an American marine about how to do trench clearing. But it would be a live fire exercises, trench clearing. I would say just the bare bones. If you have prior military experience, you don't need it. Like, you don't need the international basic training. But if you have nothing at all, like no prior experience, it's good for you.

It was a good training from your point of view.

Just okay.

What were your other fellow recruits like?

They were interesting, a lot of them came from, it was like everyone came from different backgrounds. A lot of in my training group there were enough westerners to build a platoon but a majority from Columbia and South America

Just for the benefit of our readers. When you say enough to build a platoon, how many people was that?

Let's say 12 to 18 people.

And you said the majority were Colombian.

Right.

So after your basic training, where did you get assigned and how did that work?

Where did I get assigned?

Where did you get assigned to, which Battalion and how did it work, how long did you have to wait and what sort of decision making process was there? For contracts and paperwork? That kind of thing.

Well, after basic training was over, it was just a few more weeks of waiting for our battalions. A lot of the guys had their own target units and were having issues with that because obviously the Ukrainians, they want to push us towards the International Legion, not units within Ukrainian instead of... but it's possible to work for both.

Yeah, I mean you are working for both. Well...

This is something that's quite confusing to outsiders.

Yeah.

Because the International Legion is the foreigners working in Ukraine but you can also join a unit or a battalion which is full of Ukrainian people and there are those, so there are two options.

Yeah. So if you join the International Legion, which is first, second, and I think third, you're going to be surrounded by foreigners and just foreigners.

But if you join a Ukrainian unit, there should be a platoon of foreigners. So it's like an entire battalion made up of foreigners versus a squad of foreigners. Team versus battalion.

You ended up in the first Battalion.

Yep, first Battalion.

When you were doing medical work?

I actually didn't do anything medical until way later on my first mission. It was an absolute bastard of a time to actually get the medical training. It was not organized until the last minute.

And when I say the last minute, I mean, I was learning what painkillers O could get people as I was getting ready to go to the front. And then go on a mission.

So at some point you were sent to the front; can you tell us roughly where you were? Again without giving away specifics of compromise.

My missions were mostly in the Donetsk oblast.

In the Donbass.

Yeah.

Tell me what you were doing. Were you doing medical work or were you doing infantry work or ...?

Combat medic.

The goal was CASEVAC coming to Ukraine. The goal was to go into CASEVAC. And then eventually I kind of filtered out myself to a combat medic role.

How did you do that just by pushing, being pushy and telling people that's what you wanted to do? Or were you formally assigned?

I mean, not really formally; people knew that I wanted to be a combat medic, but I mean it's been like a year now. And a lot's happened since that time. But I don't think people were organizing it or people that would get the people that needed to give the training to me. We're just chronically busy. Which I think is more likely.

One impression that's popular is that the Ukrainian Armed Forces is quite disorganised in its management.

I think it depends on the battalion and depends where you are. I think during a full-scale invasion, resources get stressed in a way that a lot of conventional militaries can't comprehend.

The thing is about being in 1st Battalion is you get attached to a Ukrainian unit and you just work as light infantry. You're just another guy. And they use you to fill in the gaps or do missions for them.

So you actually worked in all sorts of missions, not just combat medic, but regular infantry work.

Yeah.

So how did you what did you think of your new life? Were you happy? Were you happy more than waiting tables now you are sitting in a trench?

(Pauses) The Donbass. It makes you think about your ex-girlfriend and it makes you think about going to college, that's for sure.

So it's like, it's a, it's what I really wanted to do. Like it was, it was a struggle. It's kind of hard to like to talk about, not from like a PTSD or traumatized perspective, it's just kind of hard to understand why I wanted to do it at this point. But I'd say it was worth it.

One of the questions I'm often asked and it is what's life really like on the front line while you're doing these missions?

Can you describe your typical day? What's it actually like to be a soldier resisting the full-scale invasion?

You just sit in the hole, you listen to the radios, and you survive the drones. Pretty much it's like camping, but something's trying to kill you.

And then eventually command will ask you to do something really stupid, and then someone gets hurt.

Like leave the hole and just...

By drone, that's what happened to me on my first mission. It was me and one of my buddies we were ordered to relieve a position of Colombians down a tree line and that tree line has been absolutely obliterated. There's already been a lot of foot traffic in that area at that time, so you know the last thing you want to do is walk around in an area in the open where thermals can see you.

Can you explain the relevance of the tree line.

It's your lifeline; it's like eastern ukraine is just it's very flat, it's very wide it's very open. Tree lines are your best friends because drones and thermals they don't work as good. They just don't work as effectively so you do have some sort of security. I mean you can still get shot through it but an FPV [drone] can't fight through a bush and detonate in your face.

And the major risk now is FPVs and other drones. When did those really start to take over the war?

Well I think maybe 2023 but I haven't been here at that time; I only came in 2024 but when the Russians started using them that's when everything went to shit. Like when the Ukrainians were using the [drones] having the best time of our lives or that's what people would say. I wasn't there [then].

Then the Russians caught up [with drones].

Yeah and they started using those tactics too and now no one can now nothing can happen; everything is bogged down by drone swarms.

What do you mean, what's impossible?

Like, for instance, like an exercise we did when I was doing training, you know, when I was training with my new battalion in trench assault. So like open field assault, you would drive the Humvee up to the trench line and then you'd use the .50 cal [a General Purpose Machine Gun] to suppress people as the infantry fill in the trench and push. You can't do that anymore because the minute a vehicle is in the front line doing anything for more than 10 minutes, a drone comes out to kill it.

And vehicles are obliterated. There's a vehicle shortage because everything gets obliterated.

So, what you're telling me is the front line is kind of stuck, because drones have taken over the territory of the environment. Nothing happens because of drone strikes.

Things still do happen, but they come at a very high cost in terms of lives. Lives, assets and resources.

So drones have done has made the cost of taking territory or recapturing territory much higher than it was before?

Yes.

How much time off do you get while you're working, you're sitting in a hole, how long do you sit in a hole for before you get some relief?

Until you get relief.

So there are no hard and fast rules?

You've been there for a long [An officer] will tell you some stupid shit like oh you're gonna be three days on three days off And then you're there for three weeks

You're stuck in a hole [for three weeks]. That must be quite tough.

Oh, well, yeah. But you get [used to it].

Like I've never had an issue with just sitting in a trench, it's fine, I can stare at the wall and things like if you just stay in the hole you don't get hit so just stay in the hole it's not so hard, it's not difficult, but it does like strain your mind for a little bit and while you're there and the thing is while you're in that hole the Russians usually do know where you are.

So they'll be waiting for you to come out at some point, and then they'll try to kill you.

Yeah, like usually when relief comes, that's when it gets a little hot because that's when they notice the traffic and they start engaging or trying to engage.

How do you keep yourself fed and watered for three weeks in a hole?

You just bring out what you have and since you're relieving a position, hopefully what happens is you carry everything you need on to the infill and then you leave it there.

So basically you're carrying all your food and water with you for an indefinite period.

Yeah, one time we did run out of water on position, though, and we had a Baba Yaga drop it on us.

What's that?

A Baba Yaga is one of the massive drones that drop the landmines on positions like anti-tank landmines.

And what it did was it came and dropped a big bottle of water for you.

Like a six-packs. There's some relief of positions by drones providing food and water in exchange conditions.

Drones can be used for pretty much anything at this point.

And how long is the walk to the hole, let's put it like that, from a safe position where you might drive to?

That's kind of hard to generalize. It just depends on your AO [area of operations]. It depends where you're at. And it depends on how safe and non-compromised the infill route is.

But an infill route can only be used so many times until the Russians figure it out. And if you're dropping, and if your guys are dropping off in the same place, they get sewn in.

How do they do that?

Well, they watch you on the drones, do it, because there's always a drone up in the sky doing reconnaissance. And when they see a big vehicle full of angry foreigners driving up, they think to themselves, hey, these guys are coming here a lot. Let's zone in these coordinates and send it to the artillery. By the second mission on that AO, we were experiencing mortar fire on infill. I mean, it was going overhead. It wasn't direct, but it was still close enough to make you think it was gonna splash in front of you.

At some point you got injured, tell me how that happened and what the injuries were.

Well, what happened was we're doing assault operations in Toretsk.

Just for the benefit of the readers, Toretsk is a contested region south-east of Kostiantinyvka in Donbass.

Yeah.

And that is, and we're doing an assault in the forest to just destroy some rushed positions. And on that mission, I just kind of ended up being point man, tried to cross a small road and I got shot through the elbow into my back.

What were you shot with?

Some sort of rifle. Probably just one of the Russian [standard assault rifles].

So what injury did you suffer?

Tension pneumothorax and extreme elbow fracture.

Tension pneumothorax is when your chest cavity is compromised and it fills with air. And due to the changing levels of pressure, your lung can't fully expand.

So that was a life threatening injury.

Yeah.

Tell me about treatment at the time of injury and extraction, how did you get out of there?

Well, after it got shot, we just went back into a safe position. I walked back. My legs weren't affected, it was just the arm and back.

And at the time, I didn't know I had tension pneumothorax, I couldn't breathe, but I thought that's because I wasn't doing enough cardio in my free time, and I thought I was a pussy.

But in fact, you'd been shot in the chest.

Oh yeah it was awesome, my manscaped underwear was just soaked in blood

So, you walked back to position and then somebody else took a look at you and wasn't realising that you were in a bad condition.

I mean, everyone knew I was f----- up. We got lost on our way back to the starting point on that mission. And just by the grace of God, one of the combat medics that was trained in the last rotation survived with no injuries. We only officially trained three combat medics on the last rotation out of like 30 people, which is bizarre.

And then two of them get f---- up. So we had one combat medic, he patched me up. He put a chest seal on my back, grabbed me in a tinfoil blanket, patched my elbow, and then blasted me on all of the painkillers. So I was chasing the dragon for 12 hours.

I think by that you mean you were hight on ketamine.

I was high off my ass. I was just sitting in this hole, staring at the ceiling, listening, thinking about everything.

Have you ever heard of esketamine?

Why don't you explain to the readers what it is?

So you have ketamine. Esketamine is just a more synthetic version of that. It's very powerful, and it works great. That was basically what happened on that mission, was I got my arm blown out of its socket. Now my back hurts every now and again. And I had ketamine therapy.

So, at what point were you evacuated to a safe place, because nowhere in Toretsk is safe?

Not for long. I don't know how compromised these positions are, or who these positions even belong to anymore.

Things have moved very quickly in Toretsk.

Yeah, but it was just in the basement of a big building. And that's where I got patched up. And I waited for 12 hours for a evacuation vehicle.

And you were evacuated to a hospital and then you were treated by a doctor.

Yep.

So, how's your state of health today and how long did you spend in hospital and how long was your rehabilitation, what would you like to tell me about that?

Well, my medical journey started in October, and it ended in February, so that's when I came back. I was medically evacuated to Lithuania, and I was there for all my major surgery.

And then after the various surgeries you return to Ukraine.

Right,

And after all of that, have you gone back to the front?

I have not.

What are your current thoughts about all this? You know, the decision you made in your life, the experiences you've been through, the injuries you've suffered, the medical treatment you went through in order to stay alive, the fact that you're still alive, how do you feel about it all right now sitting here today, opposite me?

I just feel like it happened. I try not to dwell on it. Although I do have moments where it's very overwhelming. And for me, if I ever get upset, everything comes out.

Not just that. So maybe there are some issues I need to confront. But in general, I'd say that this experience was worth it. I didn't add to the conflict in a negative way. I added to the table. I didn't take from it. If I took more from the table, I would wish I never came here. But I came here. I did my part of it. I earned my veteran ID and I'm somewhat satisfied.

But I am disappointed that my journey ended so abruptly. I wanted to do way more.

Getting injured is just a possibility. It's a risk. It's very hard to mitigate, really.

Yeah, it's I mean eventually you'll get f----- up; everyone here gets f----- up, killed or wasted, like it happens. It would be it'd be really immature of me to say that I was somehow be exempt from that but I guess just disappointed would be the word for it. It's just disappointing. I've had fun in my free time but just being in Ukraine visiting as a civilian or as like a tourist is just - it's pointless and that's why I'll be leaving. It's just if I'm not here actively serving I don't have a purpose here.

So I need to go home and hopefully either rekindle that fire in my heart and go back here or just be done with it

So you're thinking now what to do next and you're a young man, you're 23, you've got your life ahead of you.

Hopefully.

Well, it depends whether you come back here, but if you don't come back here you've got your life ahead of you, if you do come back here, you know the risks you're taking. So now you're going to get back to the States and take a bit of time to think about it.

Yeah, but I'm just going to go straight back into some sort of work.

You realise you're amazingly lucky to be alive after the injury you received.

Yeah. Absolutely. I genuinely believe that if I wasn't injured on that assault, I would have died in that AO, all of the people that I went [there with] didn't come back, unfortunately.

How do you feel about the fact that there's a lot of people you've known who are now dead?

I cry about it.

I think about the people I care about or you know, you know, I got I got really close to some people This one Finnish volunteer named Sipa. I was really close to him and then he died. That was burn

What would you say to someone thinking of coming out to fight for the Ukrainian armed forces now? What message would you have for them? Somebody your age, let's say. Young man.

I would tell him or her, come here if you want, add to the table, really research what units and battalions you actually want to join. It's OK to die for a cause, but make sure the person you're dying for actually gives you shit. Like, make sure that your commander or whoever in the command structure gives a f-- about you before sending you out on the mission. That's all I can really think about.

Come here if you want, volunteer, have fun with it, try to have fun with it, and most importantly, understand the country you're actually fighting for. My regret when I first came here before I was injured was not actually exploring Ukraine and experiencing it before signing a contract. Instead, the minute I walked over that border, I signed a contract. You should at minimum visit the Carpathian Mountains. You should understand the culture that you're fighting for and where it comes from and why it is how it is right now.

And being sent to Lithuania, you just, you learn the same story of Russian imperialism. Like the Soviet Union absolutely raped Eastern Europe.

Do you have a message you would want to convey to politicians in the West who are considering what actions to take to support Ukraine? What does the armed forces and the country really need in order to prevail in this struggle against Russian imperialism?

I'm not sure.

I think that that's a question I have to think about more clearly, but in general I think we just should stop pussyfooting around the Russian issues.

I mean just last week we had how many drones fly into Polish airspace.

The Russians are going to keep doing what they want to do, and no one is really standing up to them.

I think at minimum turn Ukraine into a no fly zone.

Just shoot down every Shahed drone.

So anti-drone measures would be the best, against Shahed drones. And so the West needs to invest in technology to jam certain sort of drones. And that would be a way of weakening the Russian space, for example. That would be a concrete suggestion.

Yeah, well, my my main issue is the bombing of civilian targets. Like, you can't justify sending a Shahed to them. To any building in like Western Ukraine. I don't know, it's like, don't.

Finding some way of cutting Russian [electronic communications], and that would give the Ukrainians a real, practical advantage, a real edge.

Well, Grant, I want to thank you for this interview. Whatever decision you make, whether you go back to the United States and carry on with a civilian life there, or whether you come back here to carry on the war effort, I wish you the best of luck. You're a hero of Ukraine. Thank you for your service to the country and to the Western world. Glory to you, Grant.

Slava Ukraini.

Heroem Slava.